Hello Racers! Here is a new Test Patch U35!

There are a lot of changes since version U - all listed below in this post. Important changes include :

Car Sound Improvements
Automatic Update System
Windows Vista Compatibility
New Script System
S2 racers can now see S1 hosts
S1 users can use the skin downloading system
Many Fixes and Improvements Throughout

WARNING : your controls will not be correctly assigned due to the new way the controls are stored in a special file in the data\misc folder. There is a default file included for the Red Momo and the Microsoft FF Wheel so they should be reasonably set up if you have one of those. We will be providing default files for many wheels. We will make a special announcement when we need help supporting more wheels.

NOTE about H-shifters : Since U11, you cannot use an H shifter on a single seater car. If you have a shifter, LFS automatically sets to sequential when you select a single seater. There are two separate versions of these three settings (one for sequential and one for shifter) : AutoClutch, GCCut, GCBlip. That's because a lot of people may wish to use auto clutch with their paddle shift and manual clutch with their shifter.

NOTE about controls : There is a new script system you can read about below. When you select a car with a road / sequential or paddle shifter, LFS will run the file data\script\road.lfs (etc). Some people may want to use the /button command in their scripts, to assign unused buttons. For example when you drive a formula car, you have a spare horn button and you might want to use that for pit speed limiter.

Changes in TEST PATCH U35 (AUTOMATIC UPDATE) :

After installing U32, run LFS and click on List of Games. You'll be given the option to update to U35.

New language included : Galician (Galego)
Language support : wider buttons at bottom left in some cases
Outside car custom view detection for sound (out of car rectangle)
Much easier to get to desired FOV using 5 and 6 zoom keys
Can't join race / leave pits for 12 seconds after green light (stops cheating)
Other cars sound volume increased by 10% - more immersive
V and flat engined cars exhaust pipe separation (stereo effect)
BF1 wind noise decreased / other minor adjustments
UFR sound improved : more race like
Small updates to all car sounds

Changes in TEST PATCH U34 (AUTOMATIC UPDATE) :

Discount immediate pit stops from the "must pit" rule (cheating)
All cars resaved, with minor changes to sound (e.g. less gear whine)
Slightly more sound changes on large GTR cars and LX6
More updated translations

FIX : Entering SHIFT+U from following view played loud car sound
FIX : Move speed slider didn't work in high view if following car
FIX : A few vertices out of place on driver necks and marshall helmet

Changes in TEST PATCH U33 (AUTOMATIC UPDATE) :

Higher Wind and Skid boost volumes (default and maximum)
Small changes to system improving all car engines just a little
An updated BF1 engine sound file (not finished but better)

FIX : Autocross editor did not show "Set as default" button
FIX : Repeated clicking sound while loading cars in garage
FIX : Channel screen brought up a background while in game

Changes in TEST PATCH U32 :

Misc :

Improved car engine and other sounds, added gear whine etc.
Automatic update system gives info, downloads, installs patch
New general purpose save and load dialogs with rename / delete
FF Steps now defaults to 256 (this gives higher resolution FF)
Layouts do not set the number of laps unless a start pos exists
One extra car sound is now played (now 5 including your own car)
One extra car in high resolution physics (car in front at start)
Clicking the selected replay now plays the replay (did deselect)
Centre view and eye position buttons now reset pitch and rotate
Virtual start lights are now displayed on the right by default
Small map is now never shown on the left if right is selected
Option to switch off acceleration view shifts in custom views
Mirror mode for driver and custom views (now in view options)
Added "all" to clocks mode options (off, real, virtual, all)
Some more small improvements to graphics options and layout
Button control rate option now visible in wheel/js mode
Text entry box is smaller and blocks driving view less
Improved multiplayer synchronisation checking (OOS)

Fixes :

FIX : Nasty sound clicks when cars got nearer and further away
FIX : MP slowdown when playing sounds of cars in simple physics
FIX : Force now turns off instantly instead of waiting a second
FIX : Arrow keys work in wheel mode even if assigned to KB steer
FIX : Removed the unecessary FF error message DIERR_HANDLEEXISTS
FIX : Messages were unblocked by sending any command to the host
FIX : Alt+F4 and programmable keys did not work in list of games
FIX : Qualifying countdown was too short if less than 4 in race
FIX : BF1 / FO8 virtual dashboard appeared in player options
FIX : Pressing SHIFT+G during instant replay made it go OOS
FIX : Unlock was lost after hibernation on some computers
FIX : SHIFT+U camera roll function now works as expected
FIX : Button opacity option affected the colour sliders
FIX : Text appearing in middle of screen after a lesson
FIX : Excessive acceleration view shift in fast cars

NOTE - Translatable text updated

Changes from U to U30 :

Sound :

Improved wind volume at low and high speeds
Reduced crackling of sounds related to echoes
Engine can now be heard from a greater distance
Now generated at 100 Hz resolution - same as physics
Engine sound off throttle is slightly louder than it was
Wind sound volume is now linear (avoids excessive noise)
Skid / scrape sounds are now bounded to reasonable level
Sound now plays at low speed, if replay at 0.5 or 0.25 speed

FIX : Corrected volume of interface sounds
FIX : Small clicks audible a few times per lap
FIX : Bug in camera position height part of sound calculation
FIX : No music when watching MP Replay with music in replays ON
FIX : Looping music buffer while selecting a track - now silent
FIX : System messages still audible with messages blocked

Multiplayer :

SHIFT+S when spectating now goes directly to garage
Garage when not in race now shows spectate and join buttons
Clicking join with no car selected goes to select car screen

FIX : Rare crash in blue flags calculation
FIX : LFS online hosts would hang if run for 50 days
FIX : Stuck in entry screen if host has run for 25 days
FIX : Rare problem causing your car to vanish on other computers
FIX : Spectate after autocross run caused "Unknown finisher" message
FIX : A player in pits could be forced to spectate at end of race
FIX : Mandatory pit stop is now not allowed to be on final lap
FIX : RCM now has priority over race finished messages

2D Display :

Misc Option : Show time instead of FPS in-game
Hold CTRL+SHIFT to show time instead of frame rate
Realistic speedometer based on drive shaft speed
New path draw for game setup screen and in-game
User messages no longer obscure the frame rate display
Not recording message is now only displayed for 8 seconds
Messages now visible but dimmed in ESCAPE and OPTIONS screens
FOV adjust keys (5/6) now show the FOV in a temporary message
Message history (H) is now hidden at race restart or SHIFT+F
Removed text "LEFT pit lane" and "ENTERED pit lane"
Option to show small map on left or right of screen
Central text now visible in SHIFT+F mode (option)
Temporary messages now visible even if fps is off
Real mirrors are now invisible if set to virtual
Added UP and DOWN buttons to options screen
Messages are now hidden in the ESCAPE menu

Interface :

Improved instant gear shift mode selection function SHIFT+G
List of games screen allows sorting hosts by clicking column title
Improved replay selection screen, added delete, rename and info
Keys Y/N (yes/no) now work on the replay skins download screen
New track selection screen allows track browsing before load
Graphics options changed around to be intuitive / consistent
New graphics option : Draw sky (replaces screen clear type)
Controls screen now shows the function assigned to a button
Scroll bar added if more than 7 players in list of players
Skip intro option is now very fast (avoids loading track)
Skip intro option renamed to : Load track when starting
Start New Game / Join Specific Game : Added ENTER key
Game setup screen : ENTER key - joins race / sets ready
Game setup screen : now shows local and UTC (GMT) time
Misc Option : 12 hour or 24 hour format selectable
Car picture can now select the car (not just text)
Cleaner replay start - avoiding flashing entry screen
Can now use /spec(tate) X command in game setup screen
Close window button (X) does a quick clean exit
New /exit command also does a quick clean exit
Added ALT+F1 to F12 as programmable text keys
Key ALT+F4 is programmed to /exit by default
Added rename function for car setups

FIX : LOD values were rounding to one decimal place
FIX : Clutch pedal was not shown in controls setup screen
FIX : Mip bias setting was wrongly affecting in-game text
FIX : Clickable buttons in connection list at start of race
FIX : Changes were lost when selecting in car / custom views
FIX : Could not view user names in replay if MP mode was Demo
FIX : Black screen bug changing between full screen and windowed

Views :

Improved position of road car internal mirrors
Separate mirror offset for custom and internal views
Internal mirror offset limit increased to 400 mm
Draw driver / wheel option added to custom views
Roll function added to SHIFT+U free camera mode
TV camera, CTRL + arrow keys change zoom and roll
Maximum value reached marker added to virtual pedals
Single seater car shadows now visible in custom views
Custom view mode selection now separate for main and look
Buttons in view options to set custom view to eye or centre
BF1 / FO8 show virtual clocks if wheel draw is switched off
Custom view settings are now separate for all cars
Custom views are now stored in data\views folder

Controllers :

Axis, button and key assignments stored in .con files
Sequential shift automatically used for single seaters
Separate shift help settings for sequential and shifter
All steering wheels default to separate throttle / brake
Non-wheel game controllers default to combined thr / brk
Controls setup screen now shows the currently pressed buttons
Wheel turn minimum reduced to 90 degrees (for sticks / pads)
CTRL+F1 to F12 text keys are all now assignable to buttons
Car's steering wheel turns now shown in steering settings

Windows Vista Support :

FIX : Sound now works correctly in Windows Vista
FIX : Unlocking is now possible in Windows Vista

New LFS script system :

- Place text file of commands xxx.lfs in script folder
- Then script xxx.lfs can be run by typing /run xxx
- Note : CAR.lfs is run when you select CAR e.g. XFG, BF1
- Note : autoexec.lfs is run when LFS reaches entry screen

New text commands added (see Commands.txt in docs folder) :

/fov [degrees] - field of view
/ff [0-200] - force feedback strength
/axis [axis] [function] - e.g. /axis 2 throttle
/invert [0/1] [function] - e.g. /invert 1 brake
/button [button] [function] - e.g. /button 5 shift_up
/key [key] [function] - e.g. /key Q handbrake
/head_tilt [degrees] - 1g head tilt
/lateral_shift [m] - 1g lateral shift
/forward_shift [m] - 1g forward shift
/vertical_shift [m] - 1g vertical shift
/say [message] - same as typing a chat message
/echo [text] - show text only on local screen
/spec [name] - same as spectate [name]
/ctrlf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /ctrlf 1 hello
/altf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /altf 1 /view=driver
/wheel_turn [degrees] - specify turn angle of controller
/press [key] - simulate key press
/ctrl [key] - ctrl + key
/shift [key] - shift + key
/alt [key] - alt + key
/autoclutch [0-1] - turn autoclutch off / on
/gccut [0-1] - throttle cut on upshift
/gcblip [0-1] - throttle blip on downshift
/axlaps [num] - set autocross number of laps
/view [fol/heli/cam/driver/custom] - select view

IN A SCRIPT : //comment - this line is ignored
IN CHAT BOX : //xxx - short for /run xxx

/hrun X : admin can run script X on host
/exec E C : run program E with command line C

/shifter [auto/sequential/shifter] - shift mode (like SHIFT+G)
/hidetext [no/yes] - hide text (like SHIFT+F)

New file associations system :

SPR / MPR / SET / LYT files can now be opened directly
In Windows, right click and set them to open with LFS

Double clicking a SET or LYT file copies it to its folder
Double clicking a SPR or MPR file copies and runs the replay

Misc :

Added file docs\Commands.txt - listing ALL commands
Updated... docs\Autocross.txt - for new functions

Option : minimum time between gearshifts (debounce)
S1 users can now use the automatic skin download system
S2 users can see and join S1 hosts in List of Games screen
When first run, LFS defaults to desktop screen resolution
Restricted areas and route checkers added to autocross
Welcome / Tracks filename length increased to 31 chars
New car data output files (press letter O in garage)
Gearshift debounced (can't shift twice within 50 ms)

InSim : MCI packets are now available in arenas
InSim : IS_RES qualify packets sent even if not in table

FIX : Outguage reported remote cars fuel load
FIX : Driver's body optimisation was too sensitive
FIX : Selecting drag strip often resulted in 3 lap race
FIX : OutGauge now works on remote cars / MPR / external
FIX : Formula dash live settings now work in custom view
FIX : Reverse driving in hotlapping mode now invalidates HLVC
FIX : Starting LFS with /join command, needlessly loaded last track
FIX : Corrected positions of translator names on credits screen
FIX : Mirrors and clocks sometimes corrupted after minimising
FIX : Mirror option ALL did not show a mirror in wheels view
FIX : Small map sometimes went off screen or overlapped text
FIX : CTRL+F keys did not work during replays

KNOWN ISSUES :

NONE

INSTALLATION :

Warning : If you have edited any scripts, don't overwrite them! Back up your script folder before install!

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
3) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH U32 (IMPORTANT : automatically updates to U35 when you click List of Games) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_U_TO_U32.exe

DEDICATED HOST U35 (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_U35.zip

Already noted requests :

Here is a list of compatible requests already noted from the previous test patch threads. Please do not repeat these requests. Any requests made must be very close to the topic of this test patch! For off topic or incompatible requests, please use the improvement suggestions forum!

Multiple custom views per car
Separate FOV per custom view
Auto creation of colour files (while still allowing AI colours)
Virtual mirror for follower view / chase cam
Looping and ESC menu for MPR (like SPR)
Replay rewinding / forwarding
TrackIR 6DOF support

Last edited by Scawen, Wed 20 Dec 2006, 18:57.

WELCOME : This is a special forum section for TEST patches.

Live for Speed is continually improving and has very few bugs because we do a lot of public testing. We will sometimes spend a few weeks on a series of test patches and they will be announced in here. We welcome comments and bug reports from community members.

WARNING : Anything you install may corrupt your LFS installation.

These patches really are TEST patches, not official patches! That means they may have only been given a short test by me before they are posted. It is likely that you will find bugs or problems. You install them at your own risk. In some cases it will be hard to revert to your original LFS, you may lose settings or encounter unexpected problems. If you don't want to take the risk, please wait for the OFFICIAL patch or make a separate installation of LFS for testing purposes.

PLEASE : Read the first post before installing any TEST patch.

It's important to read the announcement post of any patch before installing it so you know what you are testing.

MODERATION : Duplicate bug reports and off topic requests will be deleted.

We will keep the threads to the point by deleting any repeated or off topic information. We may do this without any explanation. So if your post mysteriously vanishes, that probably means that the information you reported was already written earlier in the thread or maybe we decided that it did not contribute to the testing process. We will also delete feature requests that aren't compatible (physics or multiplayer) if we are testing a patch which is compatible with the current official version.

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 7 Mar 2016, 15:01. Reason : trimmed and updated the text

You wouldn't have to buy an H-shifter. It's already simulated as an H-shifter. There will still be the way to control H-shifter physics with paddles just as you do now. But the truly simulated sequential gearboxes (that don't exist yet) will shift faster and with less need for clutch.

Don't worry, I am aware that the sequential boxes aren't right at the moment. In fact sequential gearboxes aren't simulated in LFS at all. The race car boxes all have neutrals between the gears, just like a road car - because they are using the same code. I have bike and a car so I have plenty of experience of both types, and they will be simulated properly.

You can see by the controls updates in the new patch, for the first time a difference has been introduced between the single seaters and the road cars. I could not update the physics side of it, because this is a compatible patch, preserving hotlaps and not dividing the community. One thing we haven't thought right through yet is which of the GTR cars should have sequential boxes as well.

I expect to start working soon on some gearbox updates and also the false starts system, and try and get several incompatible updates into the incomaptible version. By the way, it's not just the sequential boxes, I'm not really happy with how the road car boxes work either. I don't like the way you can put it in gear and later on press the clutch and it shifts for you. I'll be trying out some other ways of doing it. Unfortunately I can't actually kick the shifter out of its slot like a real car. But I think I could play a crunching noise and force the user to pull it back into neutral.

I'd like to see a ball as well.

It would need to operate as its own instance. Because the physics objects on different computers are not guaranteed to move in exactly the same way (and that's one reason why they are deleted).

The easiest way to implement it would be as a "car". Of course with no wheels and with the physics of a ball. The point is, it must be a physical object responsible for its own existence and movement. It would also be best run on the host, so I am starting to think this option, if implemented, should be limited to non-dedicated hosts.

It's not very easy because several changes must be made. It's really not just the creation of a ball object and ball physics - that is just the easy and obvious part. But could possibly be done in a few days of work. Does anyone know the mass and size of the Top Gear ball? Just as reference in case I feel like implementing it one day...

Well I was just illustrating what happens, as some people may not have seen physics systems in development, going mental. It's something I find quite funny as you are working on something intended to be realistic, and the most crazy things are happening.

But ok instead of [A LOT] let's make up some figures to demonstrate.

Let's say a beam for a truck when loaded with 1000 kg (approx 10000 Newtons) stretches 5 mm. Now let's say it's currently deflected by 1 mm and this is acting on a 10 kg node. The 10 kg node will experience a force of 2000 Newtons, and so accelerate at 200 m/s^2. Let's say the update rate is 100 Hz. So in the 0.01 second time step, the node will accelerate to 2 m/s. Its average speed over that time is 1 m/s, so it moves 0.01 m (1 cm).

Now for the next physics update. The node is 9 mm the other way, so now it will experience a force of 18000 Newtons! It will accelerate by about 18 m/s... and go much too far the other way! And now we have a spasming truck.

That's a simple analysis but I am just trying to demonstrate why the update rates must be in the thousands, when you are trying to simulate something very stiff. Soft and squidgy things can run at really low update rates.

That is not to say LFS can or cannot do chassis flex by some means in future, it's purely answering the "why are the update rates so high in the truck simulation" question.

Quote from ORION :

Very stiff springs have a very fast oscillation frequency, I guess thats the reason for him having to use so many calculations per second.
Nontheless a very nice and interesting program

Yes that is true, but just for interest, the way it comes straight to my mind is stability. With too low an update frequency, the nodes will very soon spasm out of control. It's always happened when I've made wobbly box things in the past and often happens when developing physics systems. One example in LFS is the spring above the wheel which is supported by a tyre below. The wheel is light compared with those two large spring effects and can easily cause instability. That is the reason for LFS's high update rate of 2000 Hz in the sub-updates, which avoids the cars jumping up and down all on their own due to jumping wheels! You saw in the google video, at one point, in a crash when some vertices went a bit wrong.

What happens is you have some very stiff springs for the chassis members, supporting a node which let's say is 10 kg. The physics engine finds out in one update that the springs are stretched by 5 cm. Now the super string spring applies a force of [A LOT] to that 10 kg mass. So in the next update you find that 10 kg mass has gone maybe 10 metres away or whatever, when really it should only have moved a mm or so.

The update time steps must be small enough so that large force acting on the small mass at the node, doesn't push the node too far away.

Last edited by Scawen, Wed 14 Jun 2006, 18:12.

Quote from Flotch :

no physics change planed?

Not for version U, of course.

I am pleased with the results of the recent physics improvements, although there is plenty more to be done, in future, obviously.

Any physics changes take a long time and a lot of testing. There's plenty more to do but it's not something that can be rushed. The patch needs to be out so I am free to work on various LFS things for future versions , ovbiously including physics in various areas.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Have you Scawen seen this: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6873

For me it seems that the BF1 suspension gets damaged quite "easily"...

I can't really change it now, because the hotlaps have been started.

As it only happens on some tracks, where there is a dip, I think it's not serious enough to wipe the hotlaps again and insist that everyone gets a new version. I think it is better to wait until the next physics update, and implement something a bit better by then (so basically it takes more force to damage the suspension, but it gets damaged more when you do so).

I have found the reason for this bug :

Bug description :
LFS sometimes crashes when leaving online game, while your own car is in the race.

Reason :
Multiplayer code deleting car, while the car physics is still being processed.

I'm fixing it this morning and it will be in the next minor update, which hopefully isn't very far away.

Hello racers!

We are pleased to announce the release of S2 ALPHA Version S

As you know, it includes :

- the BMW Sauber racing car
- tyre and aero physics improvements
- many other updates.

There's not much more to say... download it... have fun!

Download :

http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=downloads

List of changes :

Included the BMW Sauber racing car
Improved the slipstream simulation
Improvements in tyre and car physics
Graphics option : Use compressed skins
Included Spanish training translations
Replay speed (F2) minimum is now 0.125
Traction control added to FZ50 road car
Updated translator names on credits page
Longer start delay if more players in race
Gear shift levers no longer hold the clutch
Pit speed limiter now visible on remote cars
Better dashboard on Formula XR and Formula V8
French and Russian keys guides (in docs folder)
InSim NLP and MCI packets now support 2000 laps
Small changes to the mass and power of some cars
15:4 screen ratio now detected as a 3-screen mode

FIX : Wing angle bug causing physics exploit
FIX : Command line /hours=x is now implemented
FIX : Bug in haze effect, now usable in tv cameras
FIX : Bug in demo /ban function with coloured names
FIX : After driver change - timing info not visible
FIX : Qualifying could end up to 6 seconds too early
FIX : Pasting long line of text would make LFS crash
FIX : LFSW lap times bounded to 1 hour to avoid wrap
FIX : Could sometimes teleport after a driver change
FIX : Changing tyre type, warmed to wrong temperature
FIX : Could get stuck in pits when changing fuel load
FIX : Mudguards and brakes vanish when changing plate

EDIT : Some fixes in version T :

- FIX : LFS crash (often during a multi car pile up)
- FIX : LFS crash when starting up with Greek or Norwegian
- FIX : Aston Grand Touring / North showing up as AS6 / AS7
- FIX : Commands /track=as6 and /track=as7 did not work

EDIT 2 : More fixes and improvements in version U :

Race penalty statistics now sent to LFS World
Changed format of /track host startup command
Removed /config and /reversed startup commands
Some small frame rate optimisations in car draw
Hosts can now display a 200 character welcome message
Added a new command /tracks to specify allowed tracks
OutGauge system for external dashboards (see InSim.txt)
FOX / FO8 / BF1 all have their own dashboard colour slider
Translations and docs folder updated with new translations
Throttle blip on downshift now allowed again with manual clutch
Suspension stronger before it bends but then bends more quickly

FIX : LFS could crash sometimes when leaving a multiplayer game
FIX : Croatian and Serbian should always be correctly selected
FIX : Could view other racers ARB and Brake Balance online
FIX : LFS crash when starting up with Greek or Norwegian
FIX : Aston Grand Touring / North showed up as AS6 / AS7
FIX : Aston lessons had gone wrong with changed objects
FIX : Downloading Skin message was partially off screen
FIX : Could set wind in hotlapping using /wind command
FIX : Commands /track=as6 and /track=as7 did not work
FIX : Number entry in tyre setup menu did not work
FIX : XF GTI acceleration, PRO level was too easy
FIX : Colour alternation on list of games screen
FIX : LFS could crash when drawing a damaged car
FIX : Connecting player with different weather
FIX : Text command /leave had stopped working

NOTE : Versions T and U are fully compatible with Version S

Last edited by Scawen, Sat 29 Apr 2006, 22:21.

One more question :

For those who experience the massive drop in frame rate, i guess the frame rate is still very low, even if you press the pause key? Is that true?

I'm asking that just to be sure that the updated drivers aren't somehow causing LFS physics to run slowly, and so the slowdown is almost certainly in the drivers themselves. If that's quite well established then the ATI guys will really need to run LFS over a debug version of their drivers on a HT system and they may be able to see instantly where it's tripping up.

Sometimes there is a huge slowdown due to exception handling. The scenario for that could be that somehow there is an error (or many errors) each frame due to a certain DirectX function called by LFS, and these could be causing the slowdown.

Quote from SladiVadi :

May I ask what's so bad about the tyres?

Well they are close to behaving correctly at all times, but not quite as good as real world tyres in some conditions.

It's mainly about some things they do when they are near their limit of grip, and just over the limit, and how it's affected by applying and removing the power.

BTW, if anyone asks me for more detailed answers, i won't give any. Nothing's clear until i've coded up several testing mechanisims, tyre test rigs and so on when i get back on the case with the physics.

No, sorry, there won't be anything this year.

In about November, we hoped to be able to get something together for Christmas, a minor physics update and a new config in one of the tracks. But in fact it became clear that would take too long... no-one really wants a minor physics update with bugs in it. They want a very well tested physics update, including aero and tyres.

Personally, i have been finishing my kitchen which has been in a half-completed state for seven years. Always considering tyre physics and so on, to get on with it in January.

Quote from Speed Soro :

First of all dear Scawen, you should know we all, LFS racers in Brazil, respect you and your conrades Victor e Erick.

We respect at high level your work. We never support piracy or unlock ways to "test" LFS.

We've fought for you, we are your sellers, not commissioned.

Thanks for your fighting. I know you want the best for LFS. But all i can explain is that we do already work on LFS as hard as possible. And yes we can work as late into the night as we want, and don't set an alarm clock. Did i ever say that alarm clocks aren't the best thing for humans? It's really nicer if you can sleep until you wake up. Alarm clocks are the product of jobs that run to strict schedules, and that is one thing we are lucky enough to have been able to escape.

Anyway, the number of hours for the past few years is quite extreme, i have worked to my physical limit. Since S2 Alpha, the pace is slower and after a much needed break, the language patch was a very nice way to finally get something done that needed doing, while getting me back into coding.

We will NOT form a company and begin to employ staff. So here is my point : if we are working as hard as possible, and we won't employ staff, how can we possibly produce any more work, more quickly? It'll just take as long as it takes! I've said that i'm working on physics next, actually that starts in January, as this month i work on my house and spend some time studying and considering physics at a relaxed pace.

Quote from Speed Soro :

And mainly, devs, stop cheating you don't mind about market, cause you need to eat, and you need money like we all need, and if you have no money, you will be obligate to find jobs, and LFS will be delegated to a second plane for sure...

We're not cheating about this, or trying to deceive you or ourselves. It is a business, that's for sure. But what we see a bit too much in the modern world, is where every single decision made by a business, goes through the filter "will this make more money" and the decision to do anything, is based on the answer to that question. That's not something we like, and we think the best businesses have some other philosophy. In our case, we do not deny that LFS is a business and the money we make is important. But we do not need to and do not base our design decisions on financial considerations. We just do what we are inspired to do, and that we think will make a better game and sim. That's why LFS is here and that's the way we will carry on.

Thanks. It's simple enough, LFS exists because we chose a way of working, to take our time and make the program we want. The design decisions and direction are led by interest, our ideas and experiments and also influenced a lot by requests and ideas from the community.

The money that we can make, although an important consideration, is simply not the primary driving force. If it was, then we should do something completely different, something mainstream. There are a lot of easier ways to make money. We're doing this because we like what we do. We don't want to change our partnership, form a limited company, start hiring programmers, artists, receptionists and accountants. That's not what we're here for and it's not why LFS exists. We've specifically left that kind of job.

Making a racing sim takes a long time. It's taken so much time for so many years, that we have allowed the rest of our lives and houses to decay a bit around us. So, it's sometimes a bit hard to take, when we see the amount of attacks that we receive when we take a bit of time to sort things out. I just can't understand what's the rush! We're working on a sim, which gets updated every few months. Sometimes progress is faster than at other times. You get things in the end. Most people understand that, they are happy to have the sim in its current state. But a few people are so impatient, it's amazing, and they have to come up with all these ideas about how we should do things differently, change our lives, even give up our whole lives and anything we want to do, in order to grow LFS as fast as possible. But from our point of view that's just quite strange really.

I shouldn't really need to explain this again, but i can see that the impatience level is rising again. Just relax, there will be new physics at some point when i've had time to work on the aero and the tyres, involving plenty of experimentation and testing. There will be updates from Eric as well. How long it will take, i don't know. If LFS bores you for now, just do something else for a while. You'll get a news letter from us when there's a patch.

Thanks to those who do explain this to people. It's a strange effect, this impatience thing, it seems to be seen often in gaming communities, a few angry guys putting huge pressure on developers for release dates, immense anger when the dates slip or features are cut, then it's even worse when things are rushed out before they are really finished. Gamers need to understand that it just takes a long time to write computer games and simulations. And always longer, year after year, as the complexity increases.

Hello Racers!

First... THANK YOU to all those who contributed (content and testing) to the recent series of Test Patches, as we worked through the new language support system and all the complications it involved. It's now easy to type correctly into LFS, in many more languages, including Russian, Greek and Japanese Katakana!

There are five new translations as well, and several improvements and fixes. All the changes since Patch P2 are all listed below.

New language support :

Several updates allowing new translations and new character sets...

6 new codepages in addition to Latin-1 :
- Cyrillic, Greek, Central Europe, Turkish, Baltic, Japanese (Katakana)

5 new translations :
Russian, Estonian, Serbian, Greek, Polish

Automatic codepage selection, when changing keyboard in Windows
New text entry system, handles multiple codepages and colours
User can select code page manually, if required (press CTRL)
Text colours - CTRL + 0 to 7 : change colour / CTRL + 8 : default
Can use a comma instead of a full stop when entering a number
New ^9 code - restore original colour without changing codepage
Autocross editor distance measure display is now translatable
CTRL in text input box : click down arrow to show characters

Other updates :

Pit stop required (yes or OK=done) is now shown in the F12 menu
Avoiding invalid key beep on Scroll Lock, Num Lock and Pause
Faster text draw by using fewer, bigger textures (less swapping)
SHIFT+O now enters options from setup screen (same as in game)
Join screen shows selected player and gives access to options
"Corrupted NameReply" error message removed from List of Games
New /out command - ignored by LFS but seen by InSim programs
Controller buttons can be assigned to text keys CTRL+F9-F12

Fixes :

FIX : Wrong fuel amount transferred to new player when taking over car
FIX : Faulty online host sometimes causing LFS to hang in List of Games
FIX : Some missing characters added to Latin 1 code page
FIX : "Race Ends : 1" message shown wrongly in garage
FIX : KNW filenames depended on selected language
FIX : Some changes to the text in braking lessons
FIX : Numeric keypad 0,1,2,7,8,9,-,/ keys now work correctly in game
FIX : Loss of racing line rubber : "Path info changed" message
FIX : Text about upload of 56k modem - in fact 33.6 kbits/sec
FIX : Holding SHIFT+X from in-game put LFS into a strange state
FIX : Repeated message "Could not load colours - using default"
FIX : Crash if track changed when user was in select car screen
FIX : No mid-race join option now only active if 2 cars in race
FIX : Last key pressed in text box could activate its function
FIX : TAB and SHIFT+TAB should now show all cars and not crash
FIX : Page Up and Page Down keys generated " and ! characters
FIX : Small numerical error in foot-pounds and bar units
FIX : Third decimal place of message text size was not saved
FIX : Max length player name with a full stop would be corrupted
FIX : Various bugs and crashes when using nogfx / invisible host
FIX : Some problems with kick/ban and sharing of ambiguous names

Download : (Download to LFS folder, right click, "extract to here")

http://www.liveforspeed.net/fi ... =LFS_S2_ALPHA_PATCH_Q.zip

Dedicated host : (For hosts only)

http://www.liveforspeed.net/fi ... hp?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Q.zip

NOTE :

This is a compatible patch, that means it can connect to all versions of LFS back as far as 0.5P. There are no physics updates. We know that a lot of people are waiting for them, but we always keep physics updates, track and car changes, multiplayer changes, to a single patch, because each time we do that, the online community is divided and the hotlaps must all be deleted. That's why we don't release single physics updates here and there. The important physics updates are the next thing on the list!

Hope you enjoy the Patch Q updates!

Have fun!

I think there can be a misunderstanding sometimes, about how the things come around. If you don't know the full picture, you might think that we sit there with "Language Support" on one side and "Physics Updates" on the other, thinking, which one shall we do? And then take this apparently random decision to go one way or the other.

But it's not like that at all! The work takes on a course of its own, a bit like water flowing down a hill. In this case, this whole language section started with a one-day experiment with a Japanese codepage, requested by a Japanese person and then crudely implemented by me into the old system. It worked nicely, in one sense, but you would need the same font on your computer, as the person typing the text on the remote computer. At the same time, there were mentions about Russian and Greek, and with a little experimentation and reading up about codepages, i got this idea of a way to implement several codepages into the game without using up much more memory. It looked like around a week's worth of work, and indeed, most of the characters were implemented and fixed up in a week or two.

Anyway the story continues because there are more and more complications that come along with the support of multiple codepages. The translation codepages might be different from the user's keyboard, and the user can change keyboard layout at any time, meaning that there are different codepages within a single line of text. There are many different ways of text being drawn in LFS, so many situations that come up! Anyway, even when these were ironed out, there was still a problem with entering text - in fact some old problems with colours and filename characters but now they had got worse. So, a new text entering system had to be created!

All this coding involved changes in thousands of lines of code - and high speed work to get it all done, meant there were some bugs in the new systems, and overlooked issues that needed fixing. There was never a time, when it would have seemed a good idea to scrap everything and go back to the start - new translators were working on 5 new translations that couldn't be properly supported before - and it was always exciting that we were going to cover more of the world with this "international" online simulator! So that's what i mean, the work takes on a course of its own and is basically unstoppable.

The nice thing is that we are here now, with a stronger and better version of LFS than ever before, more accessible to more people in the world, and i'm free again to work on the physics that i have been thinking about!

Kid_Paddle, you can find so many answers to this question, it's very boring and irritating to hear the same thing again and again, and have to answer the same over again.

Physics is more important to you, but do you think it's more important to someone who is Russian, or Greek and can't speak English?

LFS involves a physics core and a game around it and an interface around that. There's no point updating one without the other. And there's only me working on all these sections. You got S2, with a MASSIVE physics update. Now some other parts had to be updated. This is a very nice update because it inlcludes 5 new translations, and allows many more people to type in their own language.

As i keep saying, over and over again, physics is next. Quite honestly, when i am bugged about things that are already on my list, it makes me not want to actually do it! So just be patient. With LFS, you get more updates than most other, so you shouldn't be complaining. And you should accept that we keep the incompatible things together for another update, not releasing one physics change after another, splitting the community every time. This is explained in more detail in other places.

Could some people please stop thinking that the only reason they don't get physics updates is because of hotlaps. SPRs and hotlaps being made invalid are only one reason. But i'm seeing the same thing mentioned all over the place, some myth that hotlaps are stopping people getting new physics updates.

If there is any change in physics, there is an ONLINE COMPATIBILITY issue. Old physics and new physics cannot join together. Some people will download the test patch, and some people will upgrade their hosts. So then the people with the new version, would be all alone in their sub-community of people who like to get incompatible test patches. So then they'll say "we like the new physics" and some other people will start to get the new patch. Meanwhile, the people who never heard about the new patch, will wonder where everyone's gone. Then we'll discover a bug in the new physics so hundreds of people will be annoyed that they got the test version and didn't wait for the final version. Then a new patch will come out with some more improvements. People will wonder whether they should get the new one or not.

Then what you can't imagine is the anger that starts to be stirred up. Posts all over the web on different forums and shout boxes "why are there so many stupid patches" and "what is wrong with these developers". For some people it's a big effort to download a patch, and it makes them angry and uneasy.

Compatible test patches are very easy, get them if you want to, no disruption to the community. So it makes sense to do as many compatible things as possible (which need to be done anyway - it's bad when people can't type in their own language) before starting on and releasing physics changes, changes to car models and tracks, and other online compatibility changes. Anyway, how could i code physics changes, at the same time as updating the language support? I can only do one thing at a time.

So, as we always say, and as we have learned from experience, incompatible patches are kept to the minimum, due to the community distruption they cause. Compatible test patches can be released freely and that's the time when many game updates are done. When i'm working on the incompatible things, you probably won't hear from me for a few months, as i'll just be focussed on those very difficult things, and there won't be anything to test until several things are done.

It's a good point and already on my list, in fact.

The main reason why it can't be implemented yet isn't really because of replays, because with a logic change like this, LFS could in theory be made to work "the old way" for an old replay. The problem is online compatibility. It's too small a change to be worth splitting the community. An online incompatible patch means that all hosts and all players must upgrade and causes quite a lot of confusion.

What that means is that multiplayer incompatibility gets squeezed into the same patches as physics incompatibility, because physics incompatibility also implies multiplayer incompatibility.

Quote from YUGO45 :

just wondering..... when will this patch be official?

Well, i'll just take a look into my crystal ball and look into the future... oh wait! I don't have a crystal ball!



Just kidding... there should be an official patch when it works very well for the people who want to change codepages quite often while they are typing, and when there are no real problems remaining in the test patch. Hopefully sooner rather than later, as i do have physics work to be getting on with, but i want this very nice official patch already out there while i'm at it (best and least buggy LFS ever). It's impossible to predict exactly when all the bugs will be ironed out. Because if i knew the answers already then there wouldn't be any bugs in the first place.

Quote from jtw62074 :

Anybody else notice a decrease in longitudinal G force when the tires are locked that wasn't there before?

No!

The slightest change in physics would throw all the hotlap replays out of sync, so i hope there aren't any!

Quote from kokoi :

Is there a thread about non-language improvements? about physics and graphics? I've read on a french forum (www.lfsfrance.com) that there are several bugs in the physics, especially with tyres which don't seem to act lik in real (higher pressure, less wear...). Is there also a thread about those problems with patch we can test and so on?

No. There is only one thread for the test patch.

There are no physics changes - this is a 100% compatible patch, which means that everyone can connect together online, and all the hotlaps remain valid.

Physics changes will be saved for a later patch. We try to keep as many physics and multiplayer changes as possible, in the same test patch, because each time there are any *incompatible* changes, people with the new patch can't connect to hosts using the old patch, all the hotlap tables must be deleted, etc...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Like Axus says, I'm not complaining about the new language support at all. But I personally can't wait for some little fixes of non-language related things.

This post would be more useful if you stated which fixes you can't wait for, ideally with a link to their thread. I don't have very many exciting bug fixes listed at high priority. My main priority is to get this batch of compatible patches finished so i can get onto physics updates.